+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1

    Question Cleaning a Competition rifle

    A new shooter wants to know if there is a web-page for how to clean a BR .22cal rimfire and how often do you clean it ?

  2. #2
    wsmall Guest

    Default

    I don't know about a web page, but there are plenty of opinions. Personally, I try to clean mine between each target and I use one patch with a 50/50 mix of Kroil and Rimfire blend and then about four dry patches. I like the Kroil because it seems to allow the bore to stay cleaner. I think about any solvent is good enough, but would not use the copper removers since I don't shoot copper clad bullets. I rarely brush the rifle but if I think a carbon ring is building up I use a CF .22 brush and pull it (not push), through the barrel one time. I only use that brush about 10-12 times and then go to a new one. The brushing method is not my idea but was told to me as a "best practice" idea and I think it is. And I always use a very good bore guide and a hard polished stainless steel rod.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    188

    Default Cleaning

    Hi Bud,

    Welcome to the forum - I hope it proves to be a good source of constructive information for you and we look forward to hearing more from you.

    In a previous thread, it was mentioned that barrels can be ruined by incorrect cleaning. This is a subject that I am (a 'wee' bit) passionate about and because I can't afford to have a bunch of barrels made available to me, I thus need to look after Bronson (my 2013).

    Bottom line Bud is that like selecting ammo or anything else - your rifle will in time, let you know what it likes and works best with... cleaning included. So - I would like if I may, to run through what I do although that said - you will find as many opinions here as their are days in the month.

    To start with;

    I never use solvents or wire brushes - nor indeed anything that I believe could score or mark a barrel.

    Equally, I use a graphite cleaning rod and always use a bore guide. The graphite shaft (made by Gunslick) is 0.195" (4.95mm). The rod is tipped with an 'end' that uses donuts (I think they're marketed as 'Cleaning Pellets' there) and we use two at a time as can be seen in the attached. Using the rod guide, and because of the retained donut (6mm dry) on withdrawal - the rod never touches the bore which is thus, pristine.

    I clean after every detail - say about every 45 shots fired - irrespective but.. and as suggested above, some will say clean after 100 rounds, some after 400 and some say never...

    My Process:-

    At the end of each detail, and as a matter of course, the bolt is always removed and the plastic rod guide fitted.

    I fit two donuts and use a few drops of Gunzoil and run the rod through. Once the rod protrudes from the muzzle, I remove the top donut and then withdraw the rod and remove and discard the remaining donut.

    A fresh pair of donuts are screwed on and passed through dry as are two more passes made, each time removing the top donut at the muzzle and by the third pass - it comes back as clean.

    Lastly - a pair of clean donuts again with just a couple of drops of Gunzoil are passed through.

    One thing I have changed is that I used to clean the rifle and leave the barrel dry patched after each detail to esnure tht no moisture was retained in the barrel. I noticed recently that if I passed a lightly oiled patch through after cleaning (i.e. last) , the rifle seems to 'come on' in the next detail more quickly than if left dry - which I assume was making the lube compound easier to accumulate.

    So - how does that sound ???

    One other minor comment - Something I never experienced with centre-fire and I am often surprised at, is how many shots it can take to bring the rifle 'on' to where it shoots consistently. I find that I'm often having to fire around 10 to 12 shots before I can be confident of repeatbility in terms of POI and is something that most everyone here also experiences although to a lessor degree with hand built barrels- so I understand.

    I hope this helps mate

    Cary
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jag end..jpg‎  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    93

    Default

    A proper bronze brush will do no harm to a match barrel. This has been proven countless times and been written about extensively.

  5. #5
    wsmall Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    A proper bronze brush will do no harm to a match barrel. This has been proven countless times and been written about extensively.
    I would agree with that. But almost every time a barrel is ruined cleaning a brush is in use.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    188

    Default Cleaning

    Bud,

    As expected, we'll see a variety of opinions and while Tim is correct in that a good brush will do no harm, the reality is that if you clean and oil the barrel regularly, the rifle should not form a carbon ring nor become pitted from moisture and thus cleaning with a brush - should (hopefully), never be needed.

    Lastly - be careful not to confuse cleaning methods for centre-fire rifles (with copper jacketed bullets) as against rimfire - we're much cleaner.

    And remember, Cleanliness is next to Godliness - which is next to Impossible !!

    Cheers mate

    Cary

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    North central Pa
    Posts
    68

    Default cleaning

    What material is the jag made from?..........Is it stainless steel?
    Some of the short range centerfire finish cleaning with a patch with a drop o kroil or lockeze.
    Last edited by 22shooter; 04-03-2011 at 08:03 AM.

  8. #8
    wsmall Guest

    Default

    Some of the jags are stainless integrated into the rod. You'll probably never destroy a barrel with a jag or brush, but I guess it could happen. What happens with brushes is the rod bends, even with a good rod guide. Even with a polished rod, you can often see the rifling imprinted on the rod. Much more wear than just a bullet would create. My choice of rods in order is polished hard stainless, coated, and carbon fiber.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Elburn, Illinois
    Posts
    95

    Default

    I use the VFG pellets too, my Ivy rod is exactly same OD as the brass pellet adapter/jag, making it seamless. The pellet ensures dead-nuts centered down the bore. The pellets are pricey, about 4 cents ea, but I think worth the price. i also use Rimfire Blend and at the end of a shooting session I run a wet pellet with Kroil before I put the rifle away. Thanks, Douglas

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    North East
    Posts
    22

    Default cleaning

    I use the method that was told to me by the gunsmith who made my rifle, it is siimilar to Dan Killough's method which he posted on a prev. cleaning thread.
    Walt

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wsmall View Post
    I would agree with that. But almost every time a barrel is ruined cleaning a brush is in use.
    And you came to this data base of ruined barrels precisely how? The majority of ruined barrels that actual barrel makers I have talked to[4] as well as the folks at Hawkeye borescopes would tell you that they get ruined from bad rods and improper use of good rods irrespective of what is on the end of them.
    Last edited by tim; 04-05-2011 at 03:15 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussiflyer View Post
    Bud,

    As expected, we'll see a variety of opinions and while Tim is correct in that a good brush will do no harm, the reality is that if you clean and oil the barrel regularly, the rifle should not form a carbon ring nor become pitted from moisture and thus cleaning with a brush - should (hopefully), never be needed.

    Lastly - be careful not to confuse cleaning methods for centre-fire rifles (with copper jacketed bullets) as against rimfire - we're much cleaner.

    And remember, Cleanliness is next to Godliness - which is next to Impossible !!

    Cheers mate

    Cary
    Really, go over to benchrest.com,[sorry Wally] go to the PSL site, watch and listen to the extensive team interviews, fairly accomplished bunch, take note durring cleaning Q&A that every one, every one, uses a brush. You think they might know something you don't? By the way who said anything about a brush versus carbon rings, which do, by the way build no matter how much you oil the bore.
    Last edited by tim; 04-03-2011 at 08:19 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Hancock, Maine
    Posts
    269

    Default In my opinion

    the lack of proper rod support in most guides and sharp edges on rods and Jags are responsable for barrel damage, not brushes. Brushes used inproperly will cause crown damage but that is exaserbated by the lack of proper rod support.

    A small 45* chamfer at the muzzel would and does go a long way to minimize damage caused by both Jags and brushes, without accuracy suffering. I have had my CF barrels done that way for a number of years now. Prior to that, I had damaged several barrels due to the poorly designed rod guide I was using. The guides I use now have long supports that fit the rods snugly and fit in nearly the entire length of the guides.
    Last edited by Pete Wass; 04-03-2011 at 08:36 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    188

    Default Cleaning

    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    Really, go over to benchrest.com,[sorry Wally] go to the PSL site, watch and listen to the extensive team interviews, fairly accomplished bunch, take note durring cleaning Q&A that every one, every one, uses a brush. You think they might know something you don't? By the way who said anything about a brush versus carbon rings, which do, by the way build no matter how much you oil the bore.
    Hi Tim,

    I suggested to Bud at the beginning of this thread that there will be as many interpretations and ideas as their are days in the month. I also suggested to Bud that he would like all of us, need to work out what's best for him and that no-one, least of all me, is suggesting that any particular method is wrong, nor better than another.

    Tim, like most shooters here, you have far more experience and expertise than do I and I can thus only give my opinion to Bud and report on the 'state of play' with my Anschutz rifles which as stated, are cleaned meticulously (never beeen brushed). Using a borescope to check recently - their bores are bright, shiny and immaculate - remain unmarked and have no carbon ring after some 18,000 rounds through.

    By the way - I use a carbon graphite rod (not coated) and 'system pellets' which I believe (for me) is the right way to 'go'.

    Cheers matey.

    Cary

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    311

    Default Cleaning Rods Good And Bad

    Here is a little video I've just made on some of the rods that are available, good and bad!
    Remember I'm not a film maker and just having some fun but it shares with members a more visual descussion.

    AndyD


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    311

    Default Bore guides

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Hammer View Post
    Would of been helpful if the bore guides were about .22RF!

    AndyD

  17. #17
    wsmall Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tim View Post
    And you came to this data base of ruined barrels precisely how? The majority of ruined barrels that actual barrel makers I have talked to[4] as well as the folks at Hawkeye borescopes would tell you that they get ruined from bad rods and improper yse of good rods irrespective of what is on the end of them.
    I guess I should say the barrels I have seen ruined which may not be statistically significant but are not a small number either, and I'm only talking about rimfire because with some centerfires you don't run into the same issue. You're right the rod is what ruined them. As I said before, I don't think you can ruin a barrel with a proper brush; however you can probably hurt one. So, from what I've seen you end up with one or two problems. The brush is small enough it moves easily in your barrel and there's little danger. But, it's not doing anything. If you believe it is, take your Hawkeye and you'll see it easily. The other problem is a tight brush, and the majority of people I've seen (not all) tend to bend that rod until it's just laying a whooping on the bore, and it's bad to look in there with that Hawkeye and see the middle top of the rifling just gone. There's the problem, and it happens even with a good bore guide because that only helps to the chamber. Also that brush only has good cutting power for about 12 passes. You don't even need your Hawkeye for that, just a loupe will do.

    Most, no all, of the barrels that I have seen ruined by cleaning is because a brush was in use. I've also see the life of a barrel shortened significantly because of consistent use of a brush. I'm not saying not to use them; I use them. I don't use them a lot because you really don't need one much, but I use them. I've never hurt a barrel with one; I don't expect to but it could happen if I use it improperly. Hard polished rods are probably the best at doing no damage. But you have to make sure they stay polished, and you have to make sure they are not easily bent. Some of those advertised as "best" are very easily bent and I don't mean they bend back to shape. My opinion, and it is my opinion, and I'm only talking about name brand rods in popular use, carbon fiber is the worst, coated is in the middle and hard polished steel is the best.
    Last edited by wsmall; 04-05-2011 at 01:04 PM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Durham, England
    Posts
    346

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Hammer View Post
    Tag, you’ve just shown your complete ignorance of rimfire benchrest.

    The ‘one size fits all bore guides’ are for centrefire and nobody in their right mind would use one on a match barrel, centrefire or rimfire.

    The carbon fibre cleaning rods are also a big no no as Wallace has pointed out; never put anything in the bore that’s harder than the barrel. Plastic rods are OK with stainless being the best.

    Basic points any competent shooter would know.

    Brian
    Last edited by Brian_K; 04-05-2011 at 01:22 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    311

    Default Ivy Cleaning Rod

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_K View Post
    Tag, you’ve just shown your complete ignorance of rimfire benchrest.

    The ‘one size fits all bore guides’ are for centrefire and nobody in their right mind would use one on a match barrel, centrefire or rimfire.

    The carbon fibre cleaning rods are also a big no no as Wallace has pointed out; never put anything in the bore that’s harder than the barrel.

    Basic points any competent shooter would know.

    Brian
    As I pointed out the Tipton is the only half decent one available to buy in the UK and that's why I've gone all the way to the States to get a decent one at the length needed.

    AndyD

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    311

    Default Bore Guides

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Hammer View Post
    ROTFLMO

    Andy

    Bore guides for bolt action rifles are bore guides for bolt action rifles be they .416 or .22 calibre. Some are action specific some aren't but they all work in exactly the same way mate.
    Jack,
    In all the competitions that Ive been to I have never seen anyone with one of those in the YouTube video you posted.

    As Brian K has more experience in centre fire as I have non I think you have it wrong.

    AndyD

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts